Tales from the Brown Desk - Episode 12 - Series: A Walk Through the Criminal Justice System in Indiana - Arrest, Screening, Initial Hearing & Florida Man

Weekly Criminal Law Podcast, Tales from the Brown Desk, brought to you by Rigney Law LLC. Tales from the Brown Desk is a free flowing conversation involving two foul-mouthed attorneys. It may include graphic descriptions of sexual activity, violence, and traffic law. It may not be suitable for children. Listener discretion advised. 

Episode 12 continues a series - A Walk Through the Criminal Justice System in Indiana. In this episode, criminal defense attorneys Jacob Rigney and Kassi Rigney will walk us laypeople through the arrest, screening, and initial hearing phases of a criminal case. This episode also informs us of the latest Florida Man news where he and she have been arrested for masturbating in public. 

THE CRIMINAL LAW PODCAST

TalesfromtheBrownDesk.com

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Jacob Rigney – It’s Friday morning. That’s right. Friday morning not Friday afternoon, because Kassi has court this afternoon. So, we have to record this in the morning on Friday. We’ve locked the door so we can discuss whether we can build a wall between Florida and the rest of us, and also because it’s time for another edition of our weekly podcast Tales from the Brown Desk. I’m Jake Rigney of Rigney Law LLC. With me as usual as my law partner, wife, and the destroyer of every dress shoe she has ever worn, Kassi Rigney. Our host is Teri Ulm. Friendly reminder, Tales from the Brown Desk is a free-flowing conversation involving two foul-mouthed attorneys. It may include graphic descriptions of sexual activity, violence, and the destruction of my 401k. It may not be suitable for children, adults, humans, aliens, subterranean mole men, subterranean homesick blues men, and Bob Dylan. Seriously Bob Dylan is old. He should not be listening to this. Listener discretion is advised. Here’s Teri.

Teri Ulm – Hello everyone. Hi Jake. How are you today?

Jacob Rigney – Oh I am a medium bad. So, by Friday afternoon I’m always just wiped out and sick of the entire earth, but it’s the morning so there’s still a little bit of  optimism that hasn’t quite been wiped out yet. So, give me an hour two and then I’ll be my normal self.

Teri Ulm – It’ll be wiped out after we talk about Florida Man.

Jacob Rigney – Ha. I believe it.

Teri Ulm – Hi Kassi. How are you?

Kassi Rigney – Good morning, Teri. Very well. Thank you.

Teri Ulm – Good. So, today we are going to continue our series, a walk through the criminal justice system in Indiana.

Jacob Rigney – Our 70… Our seventy two part series.

Teri Ulm – Yes this is part two.

Jacob Rigney – This is gonna go forever.

Teri Ulm – Yes.

Jacob Rigney – This shit’s complicated guys.

What happens after a criminal investigation?

Teri Ulm – It is. So last week we took the first step into the criminal justice system and discussed the criminal investigation. And this week we’re gonna continue our walk with the next step. What is that? What happens after an investigation is complete?

Jacob Rigney – It’s like we’re on a stroll. We’re on this like nice walk down a moonlit path, and this is the point where you get to a split in the road. And down one path is a nice clean orderly path. Which is the rest of your life, never having to deal with the police again. And the other path is covered in dog shit. It smells bad. It looks bad. You don’t want to walk through it, but some people do. And the divergence there is some people do get charged after the investigation and some people don’t. The people who don’t, they go on with their lives. The people who do, welcome to poop town.

Teri Ulm – Now we are in poop town. So an investigation is complete. Now someone is being charged with a crime. What happens?

Kassi Rigney – Well, you actually have two options. You could be arrested immediately, and the technical official charge come later. Or you could be charged and then arrested based on like an arrest warrant.

Arrest

Teri Ulm – Who arrests people?

Jacob Rigney – Pretty much any law enforcement officer can effect an arrest. Although the statute creates law enforcement officers that actually never arrest anyone. Like the prosecutor is technically a law enforcement officer, and I think probation officers are as well. But they don’t actually carry handcuffs and arrest people. So it’s gonna be the police. The police are gonna arrest you and take you to usually your local county jail.

Teri Ulm – When somebody is arrested are they always put in handcuffs?

Kassi Rigney – Usually. I mean I’m not present at all the arrests. I think that on low-level offenses, you know, I think heard of people saying you know they just got put in the drunk tank and then got processed out. And maybe the handcuffs were never actually on that person. I think generally, you should expect to have handcuffs placed on you at some point during that process. Should also expect to be fingerprinted and photographed. People like to think that an arrest is magical with handcuffs, and it’s not.

Two different meanings for what an arrest is.

Jacob Rigney – There’s potentially two different meanings for what an arrest is. Right. Because you know what we’re talking about is an arrest because you’ve been charged with a crime. And if the police find you on the street either with a warrant or they have probable cause to arrest you, and so they arrest you yes, that’s almost always going to involve handcuffs, because the officer has to drive you somewhere and he doesn’t want your hands-free to be able to, I don’t know, strangle him, go for his gun, kill you. I don’t know what. So, in that situation you’re gonna be handcuffed. But technically, if you turn yourself in, you just go to the jail and say: “Hey, there’s a warrant out for my arrest”. They take you into custody. That is an arrest, because you’re being taken behind bars. I don’t know that they necessarily cuff you for that. So, in that situation, you wouldn’t be arrested. But there’s a different way to look at arrests too. And part of that is whether or not Miranda has been read to you. Right. So, if you give a statement to the police and you’re in custody, you’re under arrest. They have to read you your rights first so that you know you don’t have to talk to them. But the Supreme Court has routinely held that that meaning of arrest is doesn’t necessarily mean you’re in handcuffs. So for example, if the police officer has your driver’s license, you’re under arrest. Because no one would normally feel free to leave without their license. Right. If you’ve asked the officer if you are free to leave, and he says you are not, then you are under arrest. Whether you’re in cuffs, whether you’re you’re hogtied, or you’re just standing there on the sidewalk talking to them, you’re under arrest. So, it’s this weird term, “arrest”, that can mean a couple of different things depending on the issue that’s surrounding it. And even the police don’t always know whether they’ve actually arrested you or not. Because they’ll tell you you’re not under arrest sometimes, when legally by Miranda you are. And it’s because it’s sort of a complicated term, and that they don’t always understand it.

Kassi Rigney – Yeah. That explanation goes to the heart of why people don’t like lawyers. But also why our specialty gets us paid the big bucks. You know. TV, entertainment television, makes us really easy, but it’s very complicated.

Jacob Rigney – Yeah, and when Kassi says people don’t like lawyers, what she means is people don’t like me. Like, cuz the answer is, I don’t know. Maybe.

Kassi Rigney – No. that’s a common lawyer answer. Maybe.

Do you have a right to a phone call after you are arrested?

Teri Ulm – So, when someone’s arrested and brought to jail and fingerprinted do they get a phone call? That’s something that TV shows people. That you get a phone call.

Kassi Rigney – You have a right to call somebody. At some point you will be allowed to place a phone call. This idea that, I mean, I guess I’m picturing you know the phone with a cord in the interview room where the cop puts it down there, like I demand a phone call. Because my guess… No. I take that back. You get like a two minute free phone call at some point. But then you’re on the hook for the 30 cents a minute or whatever it is. But you have to be processed in is one of the things. And certainly if you’re going in a sentence, there’s a dead zone. And if you’re going to the Department of Corrections, you have to get processed in there. And you can be in a position where you don’t get a phone call for weeks there.

Teri Ulm – For weeks?

Kassi Rigney – Well, they’re processing you in, they’re assessing you for which facility to go to, and no you can’t… you can’t place or get phone calls.

Teri Ulm – For weeks. That’s shocking to me.

Kassi Rigney – But you’re also in that in that situation, you’re convicted and you’re on your way to serve an executed sentence at the Department of Corrections versus when you’re pre-charging or even pre-conviction. Your rights are different. I mean you you haven’t been convicted yet… the presumption of innocence there. But, I mean, once you’re convicted the world has changed for you.

How soon after an arrest will one find when they will get out of jail?

Teri Ulm – So when someone is arrested, do they know right off the bat if get out soon or if there was a bond set?

Jacob Rigney – No. They… Every county handles those situations a little bit differently. And it’ll depend quite a bit on what county you’re in. Most counties, but not all of them, have a bond schedule. So the clerk will sort of default to a particular bond level and set that bond for you as soon as the sheriff lets them know that you’re in custody. But it is different from place to place, and in some of them they will hold you without bond for a while; while they wait to decide what to set for you. Which is weird because there is a constitutional… there’s a provision in Indiana Constitution that guarantees bond to people who’ve been accused of crimes, other than murder. So, it’s weird that they can hold you without bond. But some of them do, and it’s not really the kind of thing that’s easy to challenge. So a lot of times that just happens. But assuming you’re not charged with murder, you will eventually get some kind of a bond. They are supposed to bring you to a judge after you’ve been arrested. Promptly. I think is all the statute says. Different judges have different opinions on what promptly means. I know that I’ve seen them take several days sometimes. But in some places they can have you in front of a judge within hours. So it just kind of depends. And at some point on your on your pending case, you will receive a bond. The question of whether you can make that bond or not is something entirely different. But you will have some kind of bond on your case. Unless you’re charged with murder. And if you’re charged with murder, they hold you without bond unless you claim that they don’t have a case where the “presumption is strong”. Don’t ask me what presumption that is. I guess it’s the presumption that you’re guilty. But it’s a weirdly awarded constitutional provision. It really probably ought to be amended to be a little clearer about exactly how that’s supposed to work.

What comes after an arrest? What is the state of Indiana doing after an arrest is made?

Teri Ulm – So after somebody is arrested and they’re taken to jail what is the next step? What is the state doing?

Kassi Rigney – At some point the police are going to tell the county prosecutor that they believe they have probable cause for the offense, specific offenses. The prosecutor will review that, and when they decide to charge, then they’ll actually charge it. Because it’s the prosecutor that files the paperwork with the court. Then the court has to decide is if they have probable cause for the offenses. Because the court could reject those charges at that point. But if they make that probable cause hearing then the process is going to go forward. And if you don’t get out on bond, you’ll stay in jail while that process is going forward. That’s when we go into discovery where you do depositions. When you track down witnesses. All that pretrial stuff.

Teri Ulm – Is it common at all for the police to arrest somebody and then it get to the prosecutor and the prosecutor finds that  there’s no actual legal reason to arrest
 the person?

Jacob Rigney – Well that’s not what the prosecutor says when they decide not to charge people. That does happen where people get arrested and then the prosecutor’s office declines to file charges. I couldn’t tell you what percentage of the time that happens, but I mean my estimate is that it’s probably around it’s probably between five and 15 percent of arrests where the prosecutor says this isn’t a case we’re gonna charge just let him go. It does happen. It doesn’t happen real often, but I’ve seen it. But when they do that, they don’t say: “This person is innocent” or “There’s no probable cause here”. They just file a little one-page piece paper that says the state declines to file charges in this case. So, and then Chad just gets to go home.

Teri Ulm – So does that arrest stay on Chad’s record or since he was arrested but not charged, is it on his record now?

Kassi Rigney – It would yes.

Teri Ulm – And it would follow him around?

Kassi Rigney – Until, unless it was expunged.

Teri Ulm – Okay. So what comes next?

The initial hearing. When it happens and what to expect.

Jacob Rigney – Well, for the people who don’t get charged, as we said, they just go on the bright shiny path on with the rest of their lives. Although they are still subject to being charged later down the road if the prosecutor’s office decides they’ve developed enough of a case to charge him. So, the statute of limitations starts running, but beyond that they’re free to go. For the people who’ve been charged, they go into their initial hearing. An initial hearing is usually a pretty short hearing in Indiana where the judge informs the defendant of what they’re charged with, what the penalty ranges are for those charges, sets an omnibus state (which is a deadline date for the filing of certain motions), and then typically the judge will also set the case for a number of additional hearings. Maybe one. Maybe more than one. And also the judge will inquire, usually to the defendant, whether they want to hire an attorney or whether they can afford an attorney. When they can’t, often the judge will appoint the public defender’s agency. Although that process… I shouldn’t say the public defender’s agency, because not all counties have an agency. But that process varies a bit from county to county. In some counties the judge will still do the thing where he actually says: “Well, you want to plead guilty or not guilty”. And sometimes people just say guilty, and then he just brings them over in sentences them.

Teri Ulm – At the initial hearing?

Jacob Rigney – Yeah. Sometimes. But in other counties they’ve dispensed with that formality. They enter not guilty pleas for every one who comes in for an initial hearing, and asks if they’re gonna hire an attorney or if they need one appointed, or if they want to represent themselves. And so depending on how you respond to those questions, the judge decides whether you’re entitled to a public defender. Or if you tell them you’re gonna hire an attorney, they’ll be happy, and they’ll give you some time to do that. So that’s sort of what happens next. The initial hearing. It’s straightforward. I’ve actually sat pro tem, as a judge through many initial hearings, and they all kind of run the same way. It’s just basically those things. It takes about five or ten minutes. Sometimes on some offenses, the judge will also review your bond. So the clerk at that point has already entered some kind of bond for you. Sometimes the judge will agree to change that, but the victim has the right to be aware of those types of hearings, and attend them if they want. And so if there’s a victim in the case, usually they won’t do that at the initial hearing. But if there is no victim for example, like a prostitution case or a drug case or something else, the judge may do a bond review right there at the initial hearing.

Teri Ulm – How long after someone is arrested and put in jail do they have to wait until their initial hearing, typically?

Kassi Rigney – They’re supposed to be brought in at 72 hours is the rule of thumb.

Teri Ulm – If you’re in jail and you go to your initial hearing, is there any expectation to leave the courthouse and go home or are you going back to jail if you came from jail?

Kassi Rigney – Even if the judge releases you on your own recognizance, they don’t take off the cuffs and you walk out the courthouse. You have to go back to the jail and get booked out. I mean, if you walked in, you might get taken into custody. But if you were brought in handcuffs in the custody of the sheriff, you will leave in the custody of the sheriff. That’s just not how they release people from their responsibilities and record-keeping standpoint.

Jacob Rigney – Right. If you think about it, I mean, the sheriff books everyone in. It would be weird if he was allowed to book people in and then not book them out when they were done. Right. So you have to go back. They don’t let you keep your nice orange clothes that they give you. And your Crocs. Because, by the way, in most… In a lot of places, if you’re an inmate, you’re wearing Crocs. I wonder how much we’ve paid the company that makes Crocs? That would be an interesting question. Because the Crocs always look disgusting. Like, I don’t know how old they are. And how many new ones we have to buy a year. But they come in a lot of sizes. But yeah. They don’t let you keep that stuff. So they change you back out into the clothes you came in with, and give you your stuff back. Kind of like the beginning scenes of the Blues Brothers where Jake’s getting out of prison. It’s like that. Basically it’s just like that.

Teri Ulm – So when they have to take you back to jail and go through the outgoing booking process, how long does that take? How long can someone expect to be released and free?

Kassi Rigney – Well, luckily I don’t have personal experience in this. I have been told depending on the jail, I mean, it could be couple hours. It could be days. Marion County has had a law firm has been able to certify a class action lawsuit against the Marion County Sheriff’s Office for their delay in releasing people on order of the court. Because they were seeing… I mean in Marion County, it can take days it can take days. And, they call a lawyer. What are you gonna do? The judge has ordered you released. You know. I can’t go down there and knock on the jailhouse door and demand you leave. They’re not, you know, they’re not gonna respond to me. But there is legal action on that. So unfortunately, it could be days.

Teri Ulm – Why does it take so long?

Jacob Rigney – You’d have to ask the sheriff that or his employees, because we don’t know. And they’re never gonna give us a straight answer about why it takes so long. We know that it shouldn’t take so long because in other counties we see it happen very quickly. When, one in particular that I can think of, I think Hancock County, they get people out of there when they’re done very rapidly. Usually it’s like an hour or a couple. Right. And the Hancock County Jail has got them back on their clothes. They’re out. Now granted the Hancock County Jail is smaller. They have fewer inmates. So they have less work to do. So it’s probably a little easier, but it’s not like 72 hours easier. It’s just not that difficult a task to go get a guy, change his clothes, give him his stuff back, and wish Chad a happy life. But Marion County seems to make it pretty complicated sometimes. I don’t know why. It… They may have a lot of bureaucracy. They may have a lot of paperwork because they’ve… maybe it’s because they’ve built in a lot of things after releasing people they shouldn’t have released. That’s happened. Right. The the jail has released people that they weren’t supposed to release for one reason or another. And so maybe they’ve built additional procedures into their release that caused that, but I really don’t know. Only they could tell you.

Florida Man and Florida Woman gets arrested (numerous times) for masturbating in public.

Teri Ulm – So, we are now going to interrupt this episode to bring you the latest Florida Man news.

Jacob Rigney – Yessssss.

Teri Ulm – And I don’t even know where to begin, because Florida man has upped his naked ante.

Jacob Rigney – What is a naked auntie? How do you… How do you post a naked ante? Do you take your clothes off or do you???

Kassi Rigney – The image of him humping the change machine has been in my mind since we recorded the last one. I just see this bare ass humping this machine because I walk by one at the next-door grocery store. So every time I look at it. I can’t look at it without thinking about it being defiled by Florida Man.

Jacob Rigney – And now I feel bad, because the story didn’t actually say that Florida Man humped a change machine. I just said that. I was exaggerating to create an image for everyone, and now I’ve scarred my poor wife with my sense of humor. I’m sorry, Hun. That’s my fault.

Kassi Rigney – It sounded like something Florida Man would do.

Jacob Rigney – It does sound like something Florida Man would do, doesn’t it?

Teri Ulm – It does. Especially if it was within the last week. Because Florida Man and Florida Woman, not just one Florida Man either. Numerous Florida Men and…

Jacob Rigney – Okay.

Teri Ulm – Numerous Florida Women have been arrested over the last week for masturbating in public.

Jacob Rigney – Okay.

Teri Ulm – So, I don’t know what’s going on down there. Here’s just some headlines that are out there. Okay. There is a Disney cast member who was arrested after he masturbated while watching pornography in a customer waiting room of a car dealership.

Jacob Rigney – Maybe he wanted to make his car buying decision with a clear head.

Teri Ulm – I don’t know. He said he had an urge, and he just couldn’t fight the urge. So they’re in the car dealership waiting room, in front of people, he handles his business.

Jacob Rigney – I disagree with his assertion that he could not resist his urge. Just in front of other people, he just just pulls it out and?

Teri Ulm – Yes.

Jacob Rigney – Goodness.

Teri – Yes. And then another Florida Man, he was accused of vandalizing a home and said that he listened to too much music and masturbated too much which made him feel like going and destroying stuff. But he doesn’t stop. There’s another Florida Man who masturbated in a hospital in front of staff before he fought with the staff and a security guard. Now…

Jacob Rigney – Wait. You’re running through these too quickly, Teri, and I have too many questions.

Kassi Rigney – I’m just seeing him surrounded by nurses, feverishly jerking it, and then when he’s done, balling up his fist like I’m ready now.

Teri Ulm – Pretty much.

Jacob Rigney – Alright. Now we’ve got the preliminaries out of the way, let’s do fisticuffs. Yeah. Who wants to get punched by this jerk-off hand first?

Teri Ulm – Florida Woman wasn’t gonna let Florida Man go at this alone. She was arrested for masturbating inside a Starbucks lobby while she was waiting for a friend to come pick her up to take her to the hospital for a spider bite.

Jacob Rigney – So, to recap. Got bit by a spider. Went to Starbucks, because that makes sense. Didn’t have her friend come and pick her up where she got bit by the spider, but had her friend come pick her up at the Starbucks. And then while waiting…

Teri Ulm – Yeah.

Jacob Rigney – … decided to pleasure herself in the Starbucks? In front of everyone?

Teri Ulm – Yes. Florida Woman also, a different Florida Woman, was driving her car with just a pink shirt on and she…

Jacob Rigney – Just a pink shirt?

Teri Ulm – Just a pink shirt. She pulled over, and got out of her car, and started pleasing herself on the side of the highway. She was arrested for masturbating. So it’s not just Florida Man, but something’s going on down there in Florida. There is another Florida Man who was arrested for exposing and fondling himself in a Burger King.

Jacob Rigney – Not okay.

Teri Ulm – No. And then there was a TV cop, Florida Man cop, who was arrested for masturbating in front of a woman and then rubbing his semen on her.

Jacob Rigney – Wait. Wait. Wait.

Teri Ulm – He’s gone crazy.

Jacob Rigney – TV cop, what?

Teri Ulm – Yeah.

Jacob Rigney – I don’t understand. Let’s back that one up. What he did was gross, but don’t even understand who he is.

Teri Ulm – Okay.

Jacob Rigney – He’s a Florida Man TV cop. Please don’t let it be Michael Payne.

Kassi Rigney – No. Michael wouldn’t do anything like that.

Jacob Rigney – I mean I wouldn’t think so, but I mean he is a TV cop. Or he was.

Teri Ulm – So TV caught masturbating in front of woman, then rubbed his semen on her. Sheriff’s deputy Joseph Mercado, who’s 25 years old, was given the boot from his job and charged with a misdemeanor battery. He is said to have gone to a woman’s home at about 3:00 a.m. with a fake story about a serious incident. She was talking to him in her driveway and that’s when he…

Kassi Rigney – So he had his uniform on.

Teri Ulm – Yes. From my understanding, he did. And he made up this fake story to go and talk to her. So the TV series that he was on was an A&E series, Live PD.

Jacob Rigney – Oh. So he was on Live PD. Okay. Yeah that show just got canceled, by the way.

Kassi Rigney – Cops got canceled too?

Jacob Rigney – Yeah. They both did as fallout from the Minnesota… George Floyd. Yeah. So live PD was actually a somewhat interesting show for a defense attorney to watch, and I’ll tell you why. They didn’t edit what was happening. Right. So it wasn’t like cops where they film it all and then you get an edit of it later. Ostensibly where the police or very police favorable editing crew gets to take the parts out that they don’t want you to see. Live PD was legal… or was live. Like they would just cut to and from live camera crews in different cities across the country when things were happening. And it was interesting to me because you couldn’t go three minutes without them allegedly… without them quite probably violating someone’s constitutional rights.

Teri Ulm – Wow.

Jacob Rigney – They just make people stop for no reason. They’d search things that they didn’t have probable cause or permission to search without warrants. They go looking for guns and things like that. And pat people down even though they didn’t have a reasonable suspicion or any act that would cause them to be afraid of them, which is the thing they have to do before they can pat you down. They have to have some reason to be afraid of you. And they would just do that all the time. The thing about it is that most the time when they did it, they wouldn’t find anything incriminating, and so there’s no evidence to suppress and there doesn’t being any case to deal with. But when Live PD was on, you could see them doing it over and over and over again. Violating people’s rights in ways that would never end up in court, because they didn’t find anything. Right. That’s the one drawback to what we call the exclusionary rule. What the exclusionary rule is, is essentially if the cops break the law to find evidence against you, then then the state can’t use the evidence against you at the trial. They can’t present it. Sometimes that gets the whole case thrown out. Sometimes it doesn’t. But when the police violate your rights and don’t find anything, nothing happens to them. There’s no penalty.

Teri Ulm – Even when it’s on live TV?

Jacob Rigney – Even when it’s on live.. I mean look who are these people? You’re not gonna find them. You can’t… I’m not allowed to go find them and ask them to sue anyway. Right. What are they gonna do? They’re not gonna sue over it. They’re just gonna go on with their lives. But these violations were happening all the time on live TV. And the other… on Live PD. And the other interesting thing about it is, they have a lawyer on that show. Like as the host. I think Dan Abrams hosts that show. He’s a lawyer and never says a word about any of that. He’s just like okay let’s go to Austin, Texas and see what deputy blah blah is do it. And it’s like Dan Abrams and three cops and they’re just like oh, yeah, maybe, yeah. He arrested him. Yep. Yep. And he’s just stunning as a defense attorney to watch it. I got so mad after like one episode I just had to quit watching it. I was in Las Vegas. I remember I was watching it in Las Vegas. I was like god I can’t watch this. But it was just a wild show to watch.

Teri Ulm – I bet. I’ve watched it a couple times. It was pretty wild. But I didn’t know all the laws the cops were breaking. I don’t have the insight like you do.

Jacob Rieny – Yeah. No. They just walk up, pat people down, you know, even though there’s not… The call doesn’t have anything to do with weapons, and they’re not acting, you know, they’re not doing anything that would cause an officer to be concerned. There’s just all sorts of other things like that. Searching cars without permission or warrants. Cars that the people weren’t even in. They were just nearby. Like all sorts of weird stuff, but the nature of those things.

Teri Ulm – So that’s all the time we have for today. And we will continue navigating through the criminal justice system next week on Tales from the Brown Desk.

Jacob Rigney – In part three of what will be a 73 part series that we will eventually call everything Jake and Kassi know about everything. No. Just kidding. Actually we might call it that. I don’t know. Now I got to play with my papers. Thank you. Papers. With my papers. Thanks for listening to Tales from the Brown Desk.
 Please remember while we may discuss legal issues and provide information regarding the law to our listeners, we do not intend to create an attorney-client relationship with any listener. Our advice may not be applicable to some legal issues. Please consult with an attorney you have hired to review your legal situation before you attempt to apply the things we have said to your case. Hey. Also, we take requests on this podcast. Okay. Not requests, but we take listener questions. Just email Teri. That’s teri@rigneylawindy.com, and title your email: “Podcast question”, and we’ll read it on our next podcast. Unless we start getting too many questions, and then we’ll just read the good ones from Chad. The attorneys at Rigney Law do not comment on their current pending cases. Nothing we’ve said in this podcast is a comment on a case we are currently working on, even if your Name is Chad or if you are a man or woman from Florida. Take care, everyone. Have a good weekend.